Gaywatch: An interview with Ellen DeGeneres
by Christine Champagne
Planetout.com, April 24, 2002

An exclusive interview with Ellen DeGeneres on the fifth anniversary of her coming out.

Can you believe it's already been five years since we were all abuzz with the news that Ellen DeGeneres -- along with her alter ego on ABC's "Ellen" -- was about to come bursting out of the closet? It seems like just yesterday that DeGeneres' face appeared on Time magazine, along with the famous cover line "Yep, I'm Gay." These days, Ellen DeGeneres is making headlines again: According to recent news reports, Telepictures, which produces "The Rosie O'Donnell Show," is developing a syndicated talk show for the comedian that could be on the air next year. That is, if CBS cancels "The Ellen Show," and at this point, it looks like it will. DeGeneres is also about to launch a two-dozen-city standup comedy tour titled "Ellen DeGeneres in Concert." Gaywatch recently caught up with Ellen to talk about her past, present and future.
I came out to my mother about five years ago when you came out to the public, and I didn't get a good reaction. The first thing she did was yell at me about my hair. But oddly enough, she has always been your biggest supporter. I remember back then she was so worried about how your coming out -- and being so brave -- would affect your career.

Thank her for being concerned and for the foreshadowing that she obviously saw.

I will. I have to ask you about that "Yep, I'm Gay" headline on the cover of Time, when you officially came out five years ago. Did you really say the word "yep"?

No, they did. That was their cute little twist, and it worked. It was catchy. Any article after that about me started with "Yep," and then whatever. I don't think I've ever said "yep" in my life.

It didn't sound like you, but then I thought maybe it was a Louisiana thing, since that's where you're from.

It sounds like a New Orleans thing, and I do say "y'all." So if I say "y'all," I might as well say "yep." ... Let me back up a second to your mother. What was wrong with your hair that she made fun of it?

My hair is short, maybe a little bit shorter than yours. It's too short for my mother. She never said anything negative about your hair. But she thinks I could be so much prettier if I had long, pretty hair like I did when I was a little girl.

Yeah, like those men in ZZ Top. They're prettier.

Does your mother ever complain about your hair?

No, I don't get that. I get that I should show off my body more, that I should wear tighter clothes. She's like [in a whiny voice], "Why do you wear such baggy clothes? Nobody knows how thin you are." [She laughs.] I don't think she talks like that. That was a different whiny voice than she has.

It's weird the things mothers of lesbians fixate on.

Yeah, my mother wants me to be sexier, which is not usually the case.

And she never complains about your hair?

She'll comment if somebody has done my hair for events that I go to and she doesn't like it.

I think you've gotten off easy on this whole hair thing.

Wow, all of your anger comes out on me!

Speaking of anger, you and your show paved the way for series like "Will & Grace" and "Queer as Folk" to get on the air. You broke down the walls for everyone, but I don't really see lesbians all over TV now. Yes, there are lesbians on "Queer as Folk," but they don't get to do that much. And on "Will & Grace," I'm always surprised that those guys don't have a lesbian friend or two. It seems like they would. Am I being oversensitive? I just feel like a lesbian paved the way, and now gay men are taking over the airwaves and not including us.

I think there needs to be a lot more of everything on television -- not just lesbians. I think the world is not accurately reflected. ... But I think it's easier for people to accept gay men. People seem to feel a little more comfortable with gay men because they feel like they've always known them. We've always had people like Paul Lynde on "Hollywood Squares," people that didn't necessarily come out and tell us they were gay, but it was obvious that they were. And gay men are fun and funny and witty, and lesbians don't have that kind of -- that's not what we know them for. You and I are funny. We know that.

I'm sure there are lots of other lesbians like us. Maybe not as funny, but almost as funny.

I doubt it. But let's go with that for the sake of this story. I think there are very funny lesbians out there, but it's not something people are comfortable seeing. They don't want to see women who are strong. I think that's really the point of it. It's very uncomfortable for most people to see women as strong role models.

Looking back, you took a lot of heat because people said "Ellen" got "too gay." Do you think if "Ellen" premiered today it would be perceived differently now that shows like "Will & Grace" and "Queer as Folk" are popular?

Oh, absolutely. Anything next to "Queer as Folk" doesn't seem gay. You could have "Behind the Green Door" on, and it wouldn't seem gay. "Queer as Folk" is fantastic, but it doesn't represent [everyone in the gay community]. That's the problem. It shows the extreme, the bar lifestyle of some gay men, and unfortunately, the religious right use that as, "See, this is what homosexuals do."

So that's not your life? When I watch "Queer as Folk," I think, this is how Ellen DeGeneres lives.

I'm always foam dancing or whatever they do. But I think it's good for "Queer as Folk" to be on. It's like "Sex and the City." I don't think that represents all heterosexuals either.

But I don't know. I was always shocked by [people saying "Ellen" was too gay]. I don't think my show was too gay. It was gay. That's what it was. They just wanted to put "too" in front of gay to make it sound like it was an extreme. It was weird because back then a lot of gay people were saying, "You're not gay enough." What am I then? Straight people think I'm too gay. Gay people don't think I'm gay enough. I'm just gay. I just said that I was gay. And now suddenly I have to be the perfect gay person.

My mother thinks you are the perfect gay person.

I love your mom.

Do you ever miss doing "Ellen," or was it time for you to move on when that show was canceled?

I had to transition into something else anyway. Once I came out, I couldn't go back to playing a character that had no sexuality whatsoever. I mean, I went for four years with nothing at all. The character never cared about anything or anyone. It was really hard, so once I came out, I really had to at least explore what would happen when somebody realizes that's their sexuality. And that was the hard part, walking that line, staying in television and playing the game. It's a lot of people, it's not just me, making a decision and a lot of gay people saying, "Rah, rah!" It's advertisers and station managers and everybody kind of freaking out, and it was really hard to please everybody. But I really needed to at least explore that side of dating, and we never really got a chance to. But I don't miss that at all.

In coming out, do you feel like you've changed a lot?

Oh, yeah. I feel stronger. I feel more daring, more confident. I think that by facing all these fears and all these obstacles that were thrown at me by coming out, it forced me to grow in ways that I never would have grown. It's taken me on a journey that I never would have gone on had I not come out. Every single thing that's been thrown at me, every lesson that I've learned has made me learn something new about myself. I think anytime you face some type of fear, you're going to grow in some way. You're going to learn more about who you are in a tough spot.

Did you have any sort of feelings or reaction when you heard that Rosie O'Donnell was going to come out?

Rosie and I are friends, so I knew she was going to do that. She told me awhile ago she was thinking about it. I think it was a surprise to her because she really just assumed everybody knew, and I kept trying to explain to her that until you actually say you are -- there are people who still don't believe Liberace was gay. You have to say the words for people to completely hate you. [She laughs.]

I just assumed that everybody knew I was, and even if they didn't know, I didn't think it would be a problem. They liked me. I was funny. Then, you have the people who say, "We knew. Why did you have to say it?" It's like, "What? Because there's nothing wrong with it, that's why. Or because you have a problem with it. That's exactly why I have to say it."

So Rosie is learning a whole lot, and it's been very surprising to her. But it's also different for her. This is a different time now. It's not quite as shocking for her to do it, because you have shows like "Will & Grace" and "Queer as Folk," and she also did it for a really good cause, for children. People still may disagree with her about the laws in Florida. They still may disagree with homosexuals, but they can't really hate her. And it's also not like she's coming out, and she's dating somebody, and it's in their face. There was a lot attached to me coming out that added fuel to the fire. There was so much that people were overloaded with. Not only is she gay, but we have to see it. But I don't think Rosie is going to have a hard time, I really don't.

It is one thing to come out to your family and friends. But it must be so scary when you are a famous person and you have to come out to the public. Was that strange to you at all?

Not really. That's the reason why people don't do it, because you do know why you have to justify it and explain and try to say, "I am normal. I am OK, and I'm not some freak. I don't do whatever you imagine. Nothing weird happens in our house." I don't know what people think of lesbians. But you do feel like you want to say and explain things, and that's what I was trying to do by doing it with my character [on "Ellen"]. I thought it would be a really wonderful way to educate people with a character, seeing it every week, and seeing the actual coming-out process of this person who only realizes this in her 30s. I thought that could be so powerful for television. And I thought that that would shift people's perceptions. I thought it would change anyone's mind. I already had that fan base. I was really naive. I didn't know I would lose them.

And when Matthew Shepard was killed, I don't know why, but I didn't think that would happen anymore. I thought people would be like, "We love all gay people." I know that sounds stupid. But I took it so personally when that happened to Matthew. It just was devastating to me that that could still go on.

So I didn't feel weird about having to talk to people. And I think I probably could have done a better job, and I could have been more patient, and I could have understood that for whatever reason everyone has a different length of time that they need to digest something. I just wanted everybody to get it and like me and love me and still think I'm funny and realize I'm the same person.

What's happening with "The Ellen Show" these days?

Nothing.

Is the show coming back next season?

I don't think so.

When the show was on, I asked CBS for an interview with you, then with Diane Delano, then with one of the producers, even the on-set janitor. But I couldn't get anyone. So much for promotion.

The on-set janitor is hard to get to. He was probably doing a Barbara Walters special or something.

Did you feel like everyone was behind you and the show at CBS? Or did you make some sort of mistake that contributed to the show not doing better?

I don't think I made a mistake. I thought it was a show that had a lot of potential, and it was hard because it kind of fell in-between. It wasn't quite edgy enough, and I think that my fans expected something a little bit edgier and hipper. Yet it was a show on a Friday night on CBS that had to appeal to a certain audience. Also, it was very important for me to come back and have it specifically not be about me being gay.

That's what I wanted to do with ["Ellen"], too. I wanted the next season, if we were to come back, to basically blend it. It would have been -- and this was before "Will & Grace" -- my idea was for Paige and I to live together, to have the quintessential straight person and gay person living together as roommates. That's where I wanted the show to go, but I didn't want it to be an issue.

My opinion of progression is, it's a nonissue. So I wanted this show to be a nonissue. It wasn't about me being gay at all. It was about me coming back to what I had done before I came out, which was just be funny and entertain people. I think the writing could have been sharper and better. I think that sometimes we had really funny shows. It was hit and miss. I don't think we had enough preparation time. It should have been thought out a little bit more, but I thought that idea was good about me being a guidance counselor and living at home again. But it was a first-year show. If we would have come back, who knows. We could have found all the secret ingredients we needed. It could have become a great show. But it's probably 99.9 percent not coming back, and I have some stuff that I'm working on that I'll do if it doesn't.

Like what?

I can't even give you a hint. I'm sorry. There'll be an announcement as soon as we hear about the [future of "The Ellen Show."] Right now, my obligation is to CBS.

You also have a standup comedy tour coming up. What's that going to be like?

It's going to be a "best of" show, some material I haven't done in a really long time, and then some from the last special and talking to the audience. I'm doing 24 cities through June. I really want to get back onstage and have the freedom to play and do whatever I want to do. I'm really excited about this. It's time to go back out again.